1/26 Discussion F451 Part III

Today we’ll talk about F451 Part III in a large group.

Tomorrow is Academic Planning Day and 5th hour will have the pizza party reward from Student Council for our participation in the canned food drive.

 

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11 thoughts on “1/26 Discussion F451 Part III

  1. Books ARE the life lessons that they contain. The main message of F451 seems to be like the message of many books and I think that is one good reason why Bradbury chose books as a big part for his book. All the lessons from books seem to be lacking in the F451 society like love, forgiveness etc. Because of books Montag has gained and will continue to gain knowledge. He is a better person because of them. It may have been burning Beatty that took his innocence and transformed him into the new person he is at the end of the book. However, without books none of this story would be possible. Books will be the base for Montag and his new society as they rebuild. In general, books have the essential qualities that one would want in a society. As we touched upon in earlier discussions, without struggle you can’t have true appreciation for happiness.

  2. Hey Mrs. B! I’m sorry I was gone!
    Anyways, so, Fahrenheit 451! Yeah! So! Starting off on fire and sort of leading into society…. Fire seems be treated (usually) as a destructive thing that purges the society of books. It’s interesting to me that the city is destroyed in the fire of a bomb, followed by the conversation about a phoenix, because it’s sort of like saying that the society has been totally destroyed, and is being reborn as a new society, which hopefully is kinder than the last one. Deep stuff.
    Another point I wanted to make about society, is that nobody’s ever happy, except for Clarisse, and she’s sort of outside of society, doing her own… thing. She makes time to relax, sit and listen to the sound of silence, things like that. Bradbury seems to be saying that the key to happiness is taking quiet time and things. Okay, so that leads me on to the next point I have to make. In our modern society, it seems that people don’t take as much time to themselves, because of their mobile communication devices are on them constantly, and people just want to sit inside all day, staring at a computer screen and jettisoning higher thinking. Studies have shown that in the modern world, depression is more common than ever before, in all of history. EVEN THE MIDDLE AGES, WHEN EVERYTHING SUUUUCKED!!! Anyways.

    Also, a random thing… Why is it not okay that Montag killed Beatty and it is okay that those kids just randomly decided to run him over? When he’s running from the police? It’s been bothering meeeeee….

  3. Hey Mrs. B! I’m sorry I was gone!
    Anyways, so, Fahrenheit 451! Yeah! So! Starting off on fire and sort of leading into society…. Fire seems be treated (usually) as a destructive thing that purges the society of books. It’s interesting to me that the city is destroyed in the fire of a bomb, followed by the conversation about a phoenix, because it’s sort of like saying that the society has been totally destroyed, and is being reborn as a new society, which hopefully is kinder than the last one. Deep stuff.
    Another point I wanted to make about society, is that nobody’s ever happy, except for Clarisse, and she’s sort of outside of society, doing her own… thing. She makes time to relax, sit and listen to the sound of silence, things like that. Bradbury seems to be saying that the key to happiness is taking quiet time and things. Okay, so that leads me on to the next point I have to make. In our modern society, it seems that people don’t take as much time to themselves, because of their mobile communication devices are on them constantly, and people just want to sit inside all day, staring at a computer screen and jettisoning higher thinking. Studies have shown that in the modern world, depression is more common than ever before, in all of history. EVEN THE MIDDLE AGES, WHEN EVERYTHING SUUUUCKED!!! Anyways.

    Also, a random thing… Why is it not okay that Montag killed Beatty and it is okay that those kids just randomly decided to run him over? When he’s running from the police? It’s been bothering meeeeee….

  4. Rebecca and Max talked about how Montag just wanted to burn Beatty’s ideas and Beatty didn’t actually want to die. While I agree with that, I also think one interpretation could be that Montag just wanted to burn Beatty. Beatty was Montag’s captain. He was the one who gave orders for the fires and programmed the hound. He made Montag burn down his own house. I think Beatty just represented everything about himself and his past actions that Montag hated. He just wanted it all to go away. He wanted to burn it all.

  5. Some people in our discussion were talking about how Beatty wanted to die but I don’t think that’s true. I think he just didn’t even consider that Montag would actually shoot him with the kerosene. They had worked together for however long and he had talked about how he had seen it before, where firemen get curious about what’s inside of books. Beatty just assumed that after Montag burned all his books he also burned away his curiosity “phase” and was back to being a normal fireman, no longer wondering what’s inside books. Beatty acted like he had seen firemen go through that several times. The idea that he wanted to die was just Montag trying to come to terms with the fact that he had murdered his colleague and friend.

  6. On the subject of whether Betty wanted to die or not, I think Montag repeating to himself that he wanted to die is him trying to justify the fact that he just burned his own boss. In the confusion of the moment, Montag tries to calm himself by telling himself that he wanted to die and that there was nothing anyone could of done.
    One passage in the third part that stuck out to me was the part when Montag first meets the book people and they watch the fake Montag die. This passage stuck out to me because I feel that this passage highlights the governments social manipulation of its own people by controlling all information its people are given. This goes back to when we discussed how the government is constantly telling its people that they are happy, even thought they don’t really know what happiness is or why they are feeling it, but they accept it anyways because they are constantly told so. It reminds me of a quote; “If you can be told how to feel, then you can be told how to think.”

  7. I think that a message this book is trying to get across is that an oppressive government doesn’t start like that- it starts with ordinary people. In this case, it was normal people that stopped caring about books and what happened to them because of the “living in the now” mentality their society was headed towards.The government enforced these rules, but did not create them. This proves to not work well for this society, as the “ignorance is bliss” mentality caused them to be destroyed with no knowledge of why or how they could’ve prevented such destruction. This all ties in to the major idea of dystopia being a social critique- Bradbury thinks that our own society could be rushing towards a hurried, non- thoughtful state. However, I believe Bradbury also wanted to say that a broken society can be repaired and made better after a collapse- Montag and Granger hope to build a new society based around books and the knowledge and thought that they hold.

  8. On the topic of fire in part 3, I thought Beatty’s lecture was important. He described fire as beautiful as well as something that takes away all responsibilities and consequences. Like the Mechanical Hound, fire seems to also be a symbol for something. Based on what Beatty said, I think fire symbolizes greed, because following your own greed takes away all responsibilities (pays for everything) and is beautiful in a way because it lets humans express themselves with as much power as possible. The only thing I don’t agree with Beatty about is that fire takes away all consequences. We saw in the book that the fire took away the woman’s life (the one who wouldn’t let go of her books), which is a huge consequence.

  9. I think the a message this book may be trying to get across is that an over-controlling corrupt government does not start that way- it starts with ordinary people who believe it and let it happen. In this book, it is the people that start not caring about books because they find them unimportant in their fast-moving society. This means that while the government enforces the book-burning law, it did not cause or even create it. I think Bradbury also wanted to show that a fast-moving, uncaring society does not work for anyone, as the city winds up being completely demolished while the people had no idea why or how to stop this destruction. However, the book still conveys a message of hope for a broken society, as Montag and Granger hope to rebuild their society around books, creating a better society for future generations.

  10. Fire was described as beautiful when books were being burned, and described very violently when people were being burned. Montag sees that fire is actually terrifying. Fire has always been terrible, but nobody has seen it that way. Books are a collection of our stories and knowledge. When a book is burned we are burning the author of the book and ourselves because we are burning our knowledge. The cover of this book explains this perfectly. It’s a man made out of paper being burned alive. Fire has always been destructive, the people in this society just didn’t realize it, and they died for it.

  11. I think that when Montag was accepted into Granger and the group he was born, like he was finally needed and finally accepted. Birth come from nature, in one of the passages it say that he was an ” animal come from the forest, drawn by the fire, he was a thing of brush and liquid eye, of fur, and muzzle, and hoof” this is like an animal born in nature, he is born into the natural world as an animal. I think that this is really powerful because it symbolizes Montag being born, finally being able to have his own ideas.

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