10/12 -Seminar ASP Chapters 4&5

Today we had our second seminar. Comment on this post if you want to boost your outer circle contribution.

A reminder: You earn credit if you comment within 24 hours of the discussion, provided that:

  • You add something to the discussion that we didn’t get to address OR you offer a nuance on the discussion that might change how we see things
  • You explain clearly how your thinking connects with the class discussion we actually had.
  • You reference the text as specifically as possible.

On the flip side, contributions that…

  • summarize the discussion
  • repeat things we already discussed
  • identify thoughts about the text without reference to the discussion
  • reference general/vague ideas that may or may not specifically relate to the actual text

11 thoughts on “10/12 -Seminar ASP Chapters 4&5

  1. I noticed that throughout the chapters that we read, Gene has been experiencing the five stages of grief. (denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance) So it is obviously foreshadowing that Finny is going to die.

  2. 1. when Gene jumped on the branch causing Finney to fall I was wondering if that was a switch from Gene being jealous of Finney to Gene feeling guilty for hurting him as in Gene always has to feel some incredibly strong feeling towards Finney, and Gene never felt those feelings were reciprocated until Finney broke his leg.

    2. In the beginning of the book Gene and Finney talked about the war a bit, and on the back of the book on of the first things said is about WW2. The author could choose any time period he wanted but he chose this one because the war is going on. So the doctor said Finney couldn’t play sports so if they get drafted, only Gene can go because he’s healthy. And then Finney will finally give Gene those feelings of jealousy, and or guilt for making Gene feel bad or because he’s not with him anymore.

  3. I think that Gene and Finny envy each other. They became best friends because they were roommates, but I do not think they would have been close friends or even associate if they were not roommates in the beginning. That is how I think their friendship started. I also think they are somewhat opposites, and opposites do attract one another. Gene and Finny want to be one another in my perspective, and they try or have the feeling of sabotage one another. Gene felt jealously of Finny, but did Finny feel the same too? I mean, Finny knew that Gene was trying to be the top of the class and he has a big test the morning, but Finny wanted to have a three hour bike ride to go to the beach. In the morning, Finny did not rush back to go back to the school even though Gene needed to go back for the test and possible study. Finny does not encourage Gene to study for anything.

  4. 1)On page 54 I noticed that after Gene says that he and Phineas are even on their rivalry he mentions a boy named Chet Douglass and how he is now his only rival suggesting that Gene no longer feels that Phineas is his rival and it also suggests that Gene wants to be better than everyone else.
    2)At the end of chapter 5 when Finny didin’t believe Gene when he told him that he fell out of the tree because of him suggests that Phineas trusts that Gene did not make him fall on purpose and that Gene would of helped him if he had the chance.

  5. I noticed that when Gene caused Finny to fall and shatter his leg, it symbolized that Gene was crushing Finny’s power just like in Of Mice and Men when Lenny crushed Curly’s hand. I also feel like Finny was just genuinely trying to be a good friend to Gene rather than him being jealous and trying to sabotage Gene’s academic success because on page 53 when Finny tells Gene to go watch Leper jump, the author keeps using words like “candid”, “surprised”, and “mildness” to describe how Finny is reacting to Gene wanting to study but Gene sees his reaction as a “performance”. But, I feel like Finny was being fairly genuine and that probably means he wasn’t trying to be a distraction to Gene. Although I feel like Finny isn’t trying to compete with Gene, I feel as though he does greatly admire Gene’s Academic success and he would never do anything to ruin that for Gene.

  6. I noticed that the idea of trust is starting to become really important in the book. Towards the beginning of the book, at the end of chapter two, when Finny saves Gene from falling off the tree, the scene shows the trust and loyalty in their relationship. In each chapter so far, Finny has showed his loyalty and trust. In chapter three he trusted Gene with his feelings on the beach. In chapter four, he trusted Gene to jump off the tree with him. Even in chapter five, when Gene tells Finny that he was the reason he fell, Phineas did not believe him because he had trusted him and thought that he was a loyal friend. I think the moment Phineas died was not when his leg broke, but rather more when he realized the trust was never there and that it was completely one sided all along.

  7. I noticed how important the idea of trust is in the book so far. To finny, their relationship is based on trust. In every chapter so far, Finny has proved his trust and loyalty to Gene. In the end of chapter two, he saves Gene from falling out of the tree. In chapter three, he trusts Gene with his feelings at the beach. In chapter four, he trusts Gene to jump off the tree with him. Even in chapter five, Finny doesn’t believe that Gene let him fall because to him their relationship is full of loyalty and trust. I think that Phineas did not “die” when his leg broke, but rather when he realized that this trust and loyalty never was there. It had been one sided all along.

  8. Though Gene thinks he does, Finny doesn’t see their relationship the same way as him. After Gene realizes there never was or could have been a rivalry between him and Finny, on page 59 he says that he was not the same quality as Finny. So, when Finny tells Gene that Gene is his best friend he’s really being sincere and isn’t just saying it to spend time with Gene and ruin his grades. Like Younes said, the rivalry between the boys is all in Gene’s head.

  9. Something I thought that we didnt really get to touch on was how despite being in a rivalry with him Gene is clearly dependent on Finny. An example is the clothing scene(which we talked about but not quite like this)
    This is shown by how he basically says he doesnt have the strength to make it through(I cant remember exactly what he said) but when he puts on finnys clothes they seem to give him strength and comfort him.

  10. 1. Many people said that there is a rivalry between Gene and Finny. However, I disagree with that. There is no rivalry between them. Reason being, Finny is not trying to one up Gene. He has no intention whatsoever to be better than Gene. He just is. It is natural. On the other hand, Gene is trying to be better than, if not as good as Finny. He looks up up him. So in my opinion, I feel that the rivalry is one sided. With that being said, on Gene’s side. I feel that with Gene always trying to be better than or as good as Finny, it will bring some problems and that will be what drives the plot in the story.

    2. The Gene we know is gone. Gene is changing as the book progresses. I feel that it is for the worst. In the beginning, Gene admired Finny. An example of that is on the very bottom of page 28 and the very top of page 29. Gene says “He got away with everything because of the extraordinary kind of person he was. It was quite a compliment to me , as a matter of fact to have such a person choose me for his best friend.” Gene goes from this in chapter 2 to jouncing the limb and causing Finny to get hurt in the end of chapter 4. His admiration is turning into jealousy. At the end of chapter 4, Gene gets baptized by jumping into the water. It was willingly , no one forced him. I know that in a baptism, the person will e come out as a changed person. I feel this is the author’s way of telling us that the old Gene that is so admiring is gone and that a new Gene that is angry and jealous is coming to be.

    3. The only question I have is… is Finny aware of Gene always watching him carefully. Is Finny feeling the tension between them?

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )


Connecting to %s